Posts by Disillusioned JW

170

Staying in physically for all the benefits

by Indoubtbigtime in

i wonder how many are like me staying pimo for the great association and gathering etc.

also find it very interesting having a front row seat watching the collapse of borg.. im not wasting any more time or money on anything i don’t want to do like preaching and mostly just go on zoom .

there is nothing i want to do that would be considered disfellowshiping sin, i’m married and want to live by bible principles but i have serious doubts that the gb were chosen by god and are his one and only spokesmen on earth.

Disillusioned JW

"The new missions to the moon here in the 2020s had to test the effects of humans being so far away from earth because" NASA plans to create a permanent base on the moon and thus have people on the moon for extended periods of time, not just on the moon for a few days or so.

Where do you get the idea that a lot of people think NASA lied. I've only read (and only on blog posts) of a relatively few people thinking that, and to me their ideas about such are extremely nutty. Sometimes when I read people expressing such ideas I think that surely they are joking, instead of believing what they are saying. I also thought It was probably far fewer making the posts, but using multiple user names in order to try to sway public opinion. I thought maybe most of them were getting paid by politically conservative organizations to make such posts, such as to get NASA's budget reduced.

170

Staying in physically for all the benefits

by Indoubtbigtime in

i wonder how many are like me staying pimo for the great association and gathering etc.

also find it very interesting having a front row seat watching the collapse of borg.. im not wasting any more time or money on anything i don’t want to do like preaching and mostly just go on zoom .

there is nothing i want to do that would be considered disfellowshiping sin, i’m married and want to live by bible principles but i have serious doubts that the gb were chosen by god and are his one and only spokesmen on earth.

Disillusioned JW

Indoubtbigtime, I am stunned that you have a number of beliefs regarding NASA which you claim to have. Wow.

Regarding NASA's moon landings, they were said to have happened from 1969 into the early 1970s. NASA does not say they all happened in the 1960s. I remember that when I was a very young child I watched one of the moon landings and saw the astronauts step out onto the moon and walk upon it. I saw it in a live television national network news broadcast (and thus from ABC, CBS, or NBC news). [But the news network probably picked up the broadcast from the moon with the aide of NASA relaying a reception of it to the network.] That left a tremendous impression upon me.

Regarding solar eclipses, if by matching up perfectly you mean in regards to alignment, then I agree with you. But I am sure you also know that many solar eclipses are not total eclipses, but instead only partial eclipses and thus the partial eclipses don't line up perfectly. If you mean the moon is just the right size to block out the sun during an eclipse, neither much bigger than needed nor too small, then I disagree that such has always been the case during the entire time the moon has existed.

Regarding the pictures of Mars I am totally shocked that you believe what you do about it. I don't see how anyone could disbelieve that such pictures are true and that NASA lies about Mars, unless they reject so much of modern science and of modern technology. Is it that so many of the pictures of Mars look a lot like that of dry desserts of parts of Earth (but without any plants), other than that the Mars color pictures show the landscape as being red or reddish? Is that why you think the pictures of Mars are really of Earth through a red filter?

Regarding the missing link between ape and men, there were none with features exactly half way between modern day apes and men in every feature of a skull. That is because of number of things. Humans did not evolve from any of the modern day apes, instead humans evolved from a long extinct species of apes. That is what evolutionists say, and Charles Darwin never said humans evolved from a modern species ape. Likewise to my knowledge no scientist of evolution ever said humans evolved form a modern species of ape. For example, to my knowledge they never said we evolved from a common chimpanzee, a bonobo (also called a pygmy chimpanzee), a gorilla, or an orangutan. Instead the evolutionist scientists say (and Charles Darwin said) we share a common ancestor with the modern apes. Furthermore, for at least the past several decades they say that some skull features evolved before other skull features. At a result there was never a skull in which all of it features were exactly half way between an ape (with a modern species or an extinct species) and a modern human skull. Likewise other parts of the skeleton evolved towards human-like features before other parts did.

Regarding other types of animals, it is true that many types alive today look exactly the same as ones which lived long ago (including ones which scientists say lived tens of millions of years ago, and in some cases maybe hundreds of millions ago, as determined by their fossils). Some types of life have not evolved much in the past many millions of years, but others have (or as a result of evolution have distant descendant species which are very different from them).

170

Staying in physically for all the benefits

by Indoubtbigtime in

i wonder how many are like me staying pimo for the great association and gathering etc.

also find it very interesting having a front row seat watching the collapse of borg.. im not wasting any more time or money on anything i don’t want to do like preaching and mostly just go on zoom .

there is nothing i want to do that would be considered disfellowshiping sin, i’m married and want to live by bible principles but i have serious doubts that the gb were chosen by god and are his one and only spokesmen on earth.

Disillusioned JW

Correction of typo: In my prior post when I wrote "... between out species ..." I meant to say "... between our species ...".

170

Staying in physically for all the benefits

by Indoubtbigtime in

i wonder how many are like me staying pimo for the great association and gathering etc.

also find it very interesting having a front row seat watching the collapse of borg.. im not wasting any more time or money on anything i don’t want to do like preaching and mostly just go on zoom .

there is nothing i want to do that would be considered disfellowshiping sin, i’m married and want to live by bible principles but i have serious doubts that the gb were chosen by god and are his one and only spokesmen on earth.

Disillusioned JW

Indoubtbigtime, the farther an object is away the smaller it looks. Thus though the moon is much smaller than the Sun it looks like it is same size from the Sun in our modern times. But yes I am saying that "it’s a coincidence that this time in history they match up" apparently perfectly. But in the times of the non-avian dinosaurs tens of millions of years ago the moon looked considerably bigger to the animals living then than the moon looks today. Furthermore, yes there will be a time when the moon and Sun won't look like they have the same size, but without the aid of a telescope it will be a long time (probably 100s of thousands of years from now) before anyone could detect an apparent increase in the size from the present size. But even now when people look at a total eclipse of the sun they see a halo behind the moon, thus even now the moon doesn't block out all of the Sun's light.

Decades ago during one of NASA's moon landing NASA astronauts place mirrors on the moon. After that NASA began shining LASER beams from Earth to the moon and they timed hour long it takes for the LASER light to bounce back and reach Earth. As a result they documented that the moon is slowly moving away from the Earth.

You are free to reject what the scientists say, but in this matter I am convinced the scientists are correct. I am also convinced that they are correct in saying we humans have evolved from nonhuman animals, including that some fish from hundreds of millions of years ago are some of our very distant ancestors. But evolution is not entirely due to chance. It is also due to the action of laws of nature and due to what Darwin called natural selection. I don't believe in Intelligent Design creationism (though I can understand why many people do, perhaps in part because I wanted to be an engineer and an inventor, and thus a designer).

Have you read any science books promoting evolution which state the evidence and arguments which the scientists mention in support of evolution? If not, then I encourage you read such. The WT's portrayal of evolution (and what evolutionist scientists say about it) has been very dishonest. A great many of the WT's quotes of the scientists misrepresent the meaning of what the scientists said. I know that because I looked up the sources of numerous quotes by the WT of scientists pertaining to evolution and found such to be the case. I read the context of the quotes in the original source materials (such as books by scientists, science journal articles written by scientists, science popular magazine articles, and news articles which include interview of scientists). I have purchased a number of those publications and made photocopies of multiple pages from others. I have evaluated what they say and as a result I know that evolution is a reality.

There are also books by evolutionist scientists (both biologists and geneticists) which specifically disprove Intelligent Design. I encourage you read at least one of them also.

The WT wants you to avoid reading those science books and science articles which make the case for evolution, and against Intelligent Design (and against other types of creationism). Are you going to do what the WT wants you to do on that matter, or are you going to find and read those scientific sources and see if evolution is true?

You say there is no missing link, but what characteristics do you think a missing link would have? From what I have seen some of the missing links have been found, or a least fossils of some species which were very closely related to some of the missing links. Homo erectus or Homo ergaster (depending on the definition one uses for those species) was an intermediate species (and thus a missing link) between out species (Homo sapiens) and some extinct species of Australopithecus and of some extinct species of nonhuman ape. Both Homo erectus or Homo ergaster were human but they were not of our species of human and they went extinct a long time ago.

170

Staying in physically for all the benefits

by Indoubtbigtime in

i wonder how many are like me staying pimo for the great association and gathering etc.

also find it very interesting having a front row seat watching the collapse of borg.. im not wasting any more time or money on anything i don’t want to do like preaching and mostly just go on zoom .

there is nothing i want to do that would be considered disfellowshiping sin, i’m married and want to live by bible principles but i have serious doubts that the gb were chosen by god and are his one and only spokesmen on earth.

Disillusioned JW

I agree that the families are probably aware of what the PIMOs think are concealed, at least in regards to some matters, but in many cases the families probably don't know for sure.

203

My Explanation of Why They Got it Wrong About Blood Using Only the NWT

by cofty in

10 " any israelite or any alien living among them who eats any bloodi will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people.

12 therefore i say to the israelites, "none of you may eat blood, nor may an alien living among you eat blood.

15 'anyone, whether native-born or alien, who eats anything found dead or torn by wild animals must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be ceremonially unclean till evening; then he will be clean.

Disillusioned JW

By the WT's definition of those who voluntarily disassociate from the JW religion, I am now unofficially disassociated (but not to the WT's knowledge). That is because while at the hospital in November 2022 I accepted two transfusions (450 cc [ml] each) of packed red blood cells and while in the hospital in December 2022 I accepted one transfusion (450 cc [ml]) of packed red bloods cells, but no JW (including no JW elder) knows for sure I received such. I avoided telling JWs that I received such. [You folks reading this post know that I received them, except you don't know my real name.] My mother (a devout JW) told me not to tell her what I received while at the hospital (nor of what I had been planning to receive from the hospital as an infusion). She thus gave me permission to keep the secret from her. That made it much easier for me to accept the transfusions, since it prevented me from having a guilty conscience of keeping a major secret from her. [And, more than 13 years ago I had determined that accepting a blood transfusion does not violate Bible teachings.] She also told me she is very happy I am alive and feeling well.

I am glad to no longer having to answer to the WT and its JW religion. I am also glad to have freed myself from much of their mind control, and I am glad to be alive.

170

Staying in physically for all the benefits

by Indoubtbigtime in

i wonder how many are like me staying pimo for the great association and gathering etc.

also find it very interesting having a front row seat watching the collapse of borg.. im not wasting any more time or money on anything i don’t want to do like preaching and mostly just go on zoom .

there is nothing i want to do that would be considered disfellowshiping sin, i’m married and want to live by bible principles but i have serious doubts that the gb were chosen by god and are his one and only spokesmen on earth.

Disillusioned JW

Thanks enoughisenough for posting that quote of the article I linked to, which in turn was quoting from the WT book called The Truth that leads to Eternal Life (first published in 1968). That WT book is the primary (or at least probably the most recent) WT Bible study doctrinal book I studied (with my JW father conducting the study with my sister and I) before I became baptized as a JW. I was baptized before the Live Forever book was published. Truth matters to me and I thus hate lies and I hate those who lie to me. When I learned certain truths about the WT and its JW religion I thus stopped clinging to the WT's JW religion and became an independent minded Christian. [Later when I learned that Bible is not God's word, I stopped believing in Jehovah, Jesus, Satan, angels, demons, and the supernatural.]

I wish I could officially quit the JW religion (by means of a Disassociation letter) without loosing my mother and sister (the only close family mine who are still alive, and they are devout JWs). However, by the WT's definition I am now unofficially disassociated. That is because while at the hospital in November 2022 I accepted two transfusions (450 cc/ml each) of packed red blood cells and while in the hospital in December 2022 I accepted one transfusion of packed red bloods cells, but no JW (including no JW elder) knows for sure I received such. [You folks reading this post know that I received them, except you don't know my real name.] My told me not to tell her what I received while at the hospital. She also told me she is very happy I am alive and feeling well.

203

My Explanation of Why They Got it Wrong About Blood Using Only the NWT

by cofty in

10 " any israelite or any alien living among them who eats any bloodi will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people.

12 therefore i say to the israelites, "none of you may eat blood, nor may an alien living among you eat blood.

15 'anyone, whether native-born or alien, who eats anything found dead or torn by wild animals must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be ceremonially unclean till evening; then he will be clean.

Disillusioned JW

On page 17 of this topic thread it was pointed out that the WT for a period of time thought that having a blood transfusion was a form of feeding. I remember the WT teaching that during part of the time I was a JW. Even if the WT was correct in saying that receiving a blood through a transfusion is a form of feeding, according to some verses of the NT it would be fine to feed on blood. That is because of the following.

According to Mark 7: 17-19 Jesus declared ALL foods clean. That thus would include blood in all types of animals and it would include all types of animal flesh. Notice that in verse 19 (1984 NWT) the writer of the gospel book called "According to Mark" says his understanding of the meaning of what Jesus is attributed to as having said in verses 17-19 is that "Thus he declared all foods clean", with "he" meaning "Jesus". Those verses were pointed out by a person in a post on page 9 of this topic thread.

A person in a post on page 17 of this topic thread pointed to Acts 10:3-4,15 ; 11:1-18 ; 15:7-9. Acts 10:15 says that Peter was told in a vision "You stop calling defiled the things God has cleansed." Acts 10:28 (1984 NWT) says that Peter said "... yet God has shown me I should call no man defiled or unclean."

Looking at the manner from a different point of view Cofty and TD made excellent arguments that on biblical grounds (including in regards to Acts chapter 15) blood transfusions are acceptable for Christians and Jews. As a result, on biblical grounds the WT's prohibition against JWs receiving a blood transfusion is incorrect.

43

Research paper on Effects of Shunning

by peacefulpete in

after being around this site for 21 years now, i've heard many recount their stories and feelings.

many times i can immediately relate but other times they seem to have had a very different experience with the church.

i'm sure that is because not only are all of us different in personality, but congregations and family dynamics vary as well.

Disillusioned JW

Regarding mind control by the WT please read https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/watchtower-society-and-mind-control since what it is says is very relevant.

170

Staying in physically for all the benefits

by Indoubtbigtime in

i wonder how many are like me staying pimo for the great association and gathering etc.

also find it very interesting having a front row seat watching the collapse of borg.. im not wasting any more time or money on anything i don’t want to do like preaching and mostly just go on zoom .

there is nothing i want to do that would be considered disfellowshiping sin, i’m married and want to live by bible principles but i have serious doubts that the gb were chosen by god and are his one and only spokesmen on earth.

Disillusioned JW

Indoubtbigtime, regarding your comment about a total eclipse of the sun by the moon on page 2 of this topic thread, scientists say the moon used to be much closer to the Earth - and they say it is continuing to move farther away from the Earth. The leading scientific theory says the material of the moon came from a collision of a Mars-sized planet impacting the Earth nearly 4.5 billion years ago. There are numerous scientific sources for this. Two such sources are https://www.space.com/19275-moon-formation.html and https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/moons/earths-moon/in-depth/#:~:text=Formation-,Formation,miles%20(384%2C000%20kilometers)%20away. . The latter says in part the following.

"The Moon is slowly moving away from Earth, getting about an inch farther away each year. ...

Formation

The leading theory of the Moon's origin is that a Mars-sized body collided with Earth about 4.5 billion years ago. The resulting debris from both Earth and the impactor accumulated to form our natural satellite 239,000 miles (384,000 kilometers) away. The newly formed Moon was in a molten state, but within about 100 million years, most of the global "magma ocean" had crystallized, with less-dense rocks floating upward and eventually forming the lunar crust."

Please reconsider evolution (not just biological evolution, but also cosmological evolution and even chemical evolution). Please examine the evidence and arguments which evolutionist scientists present for it (them).

Regarding being PIMO please read https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/watchtower-society-and-mind-control since what it is says is very relevant.